Hi All,
 
Would love to hear people thoughts about breeding for the meat market. I know some people have aready ventured in this area and I am certainly looking at supplying this industry, but would like to hear other opinions. Also for those who are interested Velieris Carpet has as its top range Alpaca carpet and would like tp know people thoughts about supply of fleece to this market.
 
Carl Piraino

 Carl and Jessica.    Before I get hot under the collar and start talking about the meat industry, let us cover the carpet.  I sent all our strongest fleece to them last year (Velieris)and they were very good to deal with,most of our fleece because it is organic is sold to home spinners.
 
     Now about eating them, as everyone is fully aware by now, I am SO<SO against it.   Yes in South America they do eat them and this I have nothing against.  They are a subsistent society and their life style and our rich one cannot be compared.  Do we not have enough to eat without eating this very intelligent aware creature.   We began breeding alpacas to develop into this gorgeous fleece industry, that is what it should be all about, and as Jessica says when young there would not be enough meat on them and when old they would be too tough.  Anyone I have met who has eaten it says there is nothing special about it at all.
 
      I sold two 8 and 9 month old weanlings yesterday and to see them go down the drive to their very good new home was bad enough as their mothers watched, how could you face yourself and sleep at night if they had gone to the abbatoir.    We have two babies due in the spring and then that is it  as I for one do not want to breed to send them off to their death at 6 months.  Although they are very loathe to go public with their opinions I know that there are other people ( a LOT) out there of like mind.   Joy

Carl,  
 
I think that you've assessed most things correctly.  In my opinion, the alpaca industry has thus far been a speculative deal.  In fact, in the early days, quite likely something akin to a pyramid scheme.  The sale of animals for many of the 'early' years was easy due to their being so highly desired.  I don't know if the market is flooded but it's certainly had a few good showers....
 
So, the industry has been an animal industry despite some development of fleece markets.  I think that this can develop further.  A major impediment is the inconsistency of fleece - both in the variability of the product (per the animals) and in the preparation (per the skirting by sellers).  Of course, this is not helped by the small numbers of animals per herd in most cases.  Many are in pursuit of developing commercial herds (in particular, the 'seed stock' for such herds -  another variation on the earlier pyramid scheme?).  Quite rightly, I think that it may still be called a cottage industry.  It will succeed or it will collapse.....hmmm..... however, I believe that it's growing.  I think that it can still succeed but that it's not yet safe.  The carpet industry may provide one of the greater incentives to people as the category of 'ultra' fine etc. keeps becoming more stringent.  That is, the bar is continually lowered.  If  fleece exceeding the fine categories can be made good use of while allowing growers a somewhat lucrative but, more importantly, easy way to submit the fleece, then there appears to be a rosier glow on the horizon....  The ideal scenario, to my way of thinking, would be - skirting is achieved with minimal effort and time, all but the worst pieces are acceptable, all microns are allowed, all colours are allowed, and the drop-off is a simple process.
 
Breeding for the sake of breeding is certainly a mistake of some people.  This is usually the ken of those that wish to achieve the super-standout animals using statistical opportunity.  (The more you breed the greater the chance of finding the 'better' animals.)  The real mistake with this strategy is in the outcome = too many animals to care for adequately.  
 
I think that it is this type of breeder that would especially welcome the meat market.  Whereas previously it was easy to shift the worst animals without much effort and for a very good price now it is less the case...  Therefore, culling using an alternative method to selling is likely very desirable.  I have not heard of anyone breeding specifically for meat.  I do not think that even such a scheme exists in South America. (What I did hear is that it is only the Blue Eyed alpacas that are eaten.)  
 
I don't eat meat.  I am not against anyone eating meat.  I only wish that people acknowledge the truth of the origin of the meat that they're eating which includes the killing of the animal concerned.  If it is to occur then it should be a painless and happy death (without knowledge of its occurrence).  I realise that this type of death is most likely to happen only on the home farm than at any of the abattoirs - hence the horror for some when imagining this fate for their own animals.  Alpacas, after all, especially in smaller herds, become so close to the heart.  
 
Carl, continue with your thoughts and explorations!  Very interesting.  By the way, I think that being new to the industry allows you to approach it with fresh ideas.  Oh, and you can only be new to it once in your life - make the most of it!  (Says I with nearly a whole 15 months of ownership....)  
 
Philip.
 
 
 
 

Matt - yes, your animals are in heaven on earth at their beautiful home (with green grass!).  
 
Carl - I'd reckon on the carpet angle before the meatworks......  Our President, Lesley Drake, tells me that EVERYONE, especially when first enquiring about AABA, asks about fleece disposal.  'What do I do with the fleece?'  If they can't be included in the less than 22 micron categories, what can they be included in?  The doona manufacturer wants coarse fleece only so there's one avenue....what's required for carpets???  
 
Very interesting.......
 
Joy - can you provide details of the for-carpet transaction?
 
Philip.
 

Morning All,
 
While searching the net yesterday I came across this article from RIRDC (Rural Industries Research & Development Corp.) on the Peruvian Alpaca Meat Market and findings for Australia.
 
Would like to hear further discussion from breeders on this topic.

Hello Carl,
Having been an AABA member since the early days, I have often wanted to post on this forum!  I lacked both the courage and 'get up and go energy' necessary for me to do so.   Therefore, given that I am posting now, I thank you for raising the meat issue.  Your doing so has clarified for me how much I want the fleece side of the industry to work.  I want it to work well for ourselves, the producer.  I also want it to work well for the cottage market, the manufacturers and the consumers.   I very much appreciate the genuine spirit of inquiry evident in your postings on both meat and fleece - and that which is evident in the responses you have received.
Re Carpet:  I recently acquired a sample of the carpet you mentioned.  It is truly impressive.
Re Fleece:  I don't have 'bucket loads of fleece' in the shed, but I do have 'loads of boxes' of fleece. Any attempt I have made to prepare and transport these fleeces has been hampered with the difficulties Phillip suggests.  
Hence, I am ready and wiling to contribute to whatever steps need to be taken to move forward.
 
Pat
Telarra Alpacas

An especially warm welcome to Pat - Joy is right, we hope to see more of you here!  If you wish to participate more fully in the research of this particular strain of thought then please send our Secretary, Janet, a line and we'll get something organised......!  All offers of help are appreciated and accepted!
 
secretary@aaba.com.au
 
Carl: I sense that the carpet avenue is promoting more interest than you may realise.  Find a way for people to easily dispose of all types of fleece and you will be on a real winner.
 
 
The meat avenue is another story.  I have read the article that you posted.  I am afraid that my strongest impression was that it was a waste of money to send the reporter over there!  I say that because I could not glean any information that might be worthwhile to us here, in Australia.
 
The best piece of data is that only 20% of their alpaca meat is processed at an abattoir.  However, the report failed to mention to where the other 80% made its way and, more importantly, why.  If this is due to a cultural difference I should think that it's because the alpacas are slaughtered on farm and used at a very local/market style level.  Australia's consumers exhibit very different behaviour.  Therefore, taking lessons from Peru does not, in fact, make for a good education, no?!
 
What was of interest was the information regarding the carcass:  23 kgs., half prime and half seconds; slaughter at 1.5 - 2 years ideal but often not until 7 or 8; the use of feedlots for 20 days prior to slaughter (at the abbatoir).  (I still can't understand how the researcher needed a trip to Peru to find this out......  they had phones back then, didn't they?)
 
From this I realise that the feedlot preparation would fall back on the supplier, no abattoir in Australia, that I've heard of, would provide this service.  Would stress taint the alpaca meat if this 'service' could not be provided?  
 
Hides?  I would think that there would be interest here to some extent.  I could not guess at the remuneration offered.  Obviously, this is tied to the harvest of the carcass.
   
 
But Carl, if the ideal slaughter age is 1.5 - 2, that would still mean two fleeces........what can we do with them.....?  
 
Oh, and the other thing to recognise is the breeding rate of alpacas and their rate of growth.  Does it compare with other meat livestock?  Would you reckon on a high price for the alpaca meat that would compensate for its much lower productivity?
 
 
Okay, that's enough from me for now.  I don't align myself with the use of alpaca for the meat market (I'd rather it not occur) but I certainly do not oppose your own interest in this subject and hope that I offer impartial responses.
 
All the best,
Philip.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 I also found the Meat Industry article in South america interesting, but it would be very different to what has to happen here.   Feed lots are a horrible thought , cannot stand them for cows, and there would be dreadful stress especially for a sensitive Creature such as the Alpaca.   Why not grow the pasture here that makes there meat offensive, where do i get it ???????????????????      Joy

One thing I did read about the carpet people is that they only buy in 100 kilogram bales, sorted by colour. So that means that growers would need to collaborate on getting a bale, or a heck of a lot af animals in the same colour.